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Post by z3r0 on May 29, 2016 13:14:40 GMT -5
OK, so the other day was playing on goldrush and was pulling a McBain and using an MG42 from the axis spawn exit.
An admin killed me there with an RNade, which caught me by surprise as i was under the impression this was still against server rules.
I brought up the subject, and was told that this rule was being changed. (I feel like if there are talks about a new rule going on, then the old rule is still in effect, until otherwise stated, in which case i still think i was in the right. But, not really where I was going with this.)
My real point/question is, Is there a thread where this was discussed that I am missing? Or is this something that is in an admin only section of the forum at this time?
Because if it was posted somewhere for all to see that I shouldn't have been laying there with the MG, then i will humbly apologize. Just want to make sure I am clear on any new rules.
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Post by hoff{QAW} on May 29, 2016 13:26:12 GMT -5
No rule has changed. This situation has brought the attention of members and, even thought there's no public thread about it, the particular case of the MG at the axis' spawn exit near the barrier is being discussed. We'll be trying to settle this point shortly enough. In the meanwhile, rules are very clear: the MG is fair game (med or fop supplying it also) with your knife or Thompson, no splash damage weapons allowed in spawn.
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Post by z3r0 on May 29, 2016 13:32:07 GMT -5
Thank you. That is what i thought. It wasnt the getting killed that had surprised me. It was the weapon of choice (rnade)
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Sgt. AWOLaLot
Server Admin
"Ah yes! I was wondering what would break first. Your spirit... or your body."
Posts: 1,202
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Post by Sgt. AWOLaLot on May 29, 2016 13:58:01 GMT -5
If I may give my two cents, I don't think this is a rule that should be changed... Simply because it isn't very hard to sneak in from the bridge side and kill the mg with a light weapon. However, I do see how it could give the Allies a serious disadvantage if they are advancing from truck barrier and can't rifle nade it from a distance. But if unless it has a consistent effect on the outcome of the game, I don't think it has to be changed. But if any clan members or other players have noticed anything, feel free to say so.
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Post by z3r0 on May 30, 2016 12:11:06 GMT -5
My opinion is that it shouldn't be changed as well. But I will follow whatever ends up being put in place
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Post by Porridge{QAW} on May 30, 2016 12:44:12 GMT -5
Thank you. That is what i thought. It wasnt the getting killed that had surprised me. It was the weapon of choice (rnade) Hey Zero - was it me who killed you w/ an R-nade? I do vaguely remember firing towards the tank as an allied engy (and it might have ricocheted there). Anyway, this also caused a flamer to take liberties and go after you. :/ At this point, due to all troubles that the MG can cause at a spawn exit, we're reviewing that rule. It also doesn't allow axis to leave the exit easily - since that spot blocks traffic. So, as has been mentioned, we're reviewing the rules there. In the meantime, I'd strongly encourage not using an MG at a spawn exit (although it's not part of the rules yet, so no warning for MG in spawn use per se (yet)). Danke!
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on May 30, 2016 18:00:38 GMT -5
GR spawn exit (near tank 2, not back one), has some things going for it. once tank STARTS moving to where tank 2 cant be built anymore, to when bank is blown(final position), there's some leniency with spawn splash rules. If tank 2 can still be built, OR bank is already blown, the red zone of that exit can NOT be splashed. bullets only for attackers. the further spawn exit can NEVER BE ATTACKED. dont splash or shoot into that exit EVER unless someone is clearly running back in, or attacking from within. did i miss anything? an mg should be bullets only unless tank is past tank 2 and before final position. i don't think anyone would want nades in the actual spawn tho. splash into red a bit when tank is in motion only. intent is important. keep any splash out of the ACTUAL spaw n area
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Post by SCOUT on May 30, 2016 18:06:47 GMT -5
We're not considering changing the SK rules; we're considering not allowing the Axis mobile MG to set up in the doorway/exit. It's bogging down the Axis team from getting out into the courtyard. Another one of those "one persons fun" shouldn't be having a negative effect for others on the server thought.
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Post by Cowboy{QAW} on May 30, 2016 20:49:31 GMT -5
+1 The intent isn't for a change in the rules, but to simply allow spawning players to be able to exit the spawn and get to the objective. There have been plenty of instances when players have jammed up in the exit trying to get out, and allies get away with the gold.. Lets be honest, the exits are small enough without having someone laying there that you have to try and get around.
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Post by Torbuck{QAW} on May 31, 2016 8:08:30 GMT -5
I don't think you need a rule banning an MG from the GR or any spawn exit. I would think that if they pose a hindrance to the team getting out of spawn, then it is up to the team to regulate whether the MG should be there or not. It would go a long way for the soldier on the MG to realize he is causing a problem for his team. It would also be up to the team to not cry SK because they caught a bullet intended for the MG in the exit. Besides spawn shield protects most in that time frame anyway.
Much like the gorilla enclosure at the Cincinnati Zoo, you try to idiot proof this and a better idiot will just come along and ruin it for everyone again. JMHO.
\V/ Live Long and Prosper!!!
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Sgt. AWOLaLot
Server Admin
"Ah yes! I was wondering what would break first. Your spirit... or your body."
Posts: 1,202
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Post by Sgt. AWOLaLot on May 31, 2016 10:15:02 GMT -5
I have to agree with Torbuck. I don't recall anyone really complaining about the mg blocking the Axis team. Besides, usually there's only an mg there after the bank doors are blown and most axis players probably use the second spawn exit or go around the back to get to the bank. And I would also argue there is enough room to exit the front when needed. Most times the mgs are considerate enough to leave walking space.
As for the whole nades thing... yeah, they might attract nades but this is already defined in the sk rules.
And there's one other reason I don't like the idea of the rule. I don't have numbers to support this, but Goldrush is arguably the most balanced original map, which is one reason why most people love it. More games go down to the wire on that map than any of the others. My point here is that adding the rule really won't change the overall balance of the game. In fact, I'd argue that the Axis team would have a slight disadvantage. Especially of they were quickly defeated at the two barriers and had to hold the courtyard.
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Post by SCOUT on May 31, 2016 17:25:55 GMT -5
If we go with this idea, the impact to the teams are insignificant IMO. No SK rules are changed and the Axis are now unimpeded leaving that side of the spawn, which should result in faster response times to the courtyard.
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Sgt. AWOLaLot
Server Admin
"Ah yes! I was wondering what would break first. Your spirit... or your body."
Posts: 1,202
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Post by Sgt. AWOLaLot on May 31, 2016 18:13:21 GMT -5
Scout, it looks like we're using the same logic to argue both our points. That's quite interesting, lol. For now though, I'm going to stick to what I said. Since I can't recall any complaints from Axis players, I am going to assume it hasn't been a hindrance. This is a case where it hasn't been an issue before, but because someone said something they are trying to make it an issue. And that's not meant to put you down Zero. Discussion is always good. This is just one issue that shouldn't be over thought.
That being said, ultimately it is up to the clan members. And while I will be against if their is a rule change, as an admin I assure you I will enforce the rule as QAW defines it.
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Post by mcbain{QAW} on Jun 1, 2016 19:58:49 GMT -5
Ha. I love how this is my move now (pulling a mcbain!!!) even though I have only started doing it (with wild success might I add) after watching that Creeping on Sarah dude do it (quite successfully I might add). This is probably only within the last 3-4 weeks. I must be so good, that it is causing a rules change?! I was messaged by a QAW team member (only a few days ago) and now I won't be doing it again. For the record, I have not once seen a team message that I was blocking the door as most people exit back of spawn or can go around as I usually go to the side to avoid being shot from people near bridge. Also, this mg is easily defeated by a can of smoke...lurch does it with skill. IMO I think mortaring from spawn area on guns in Oasis can be just as deadly/effective, but for some reason doesn't raise any controversy. Hopefully people don't see putting an mg at that spot cutting off the back allied approach as "on the edge of breaking the rules". Seems like you might be considering punishing the wrong people here...focus on those that use splash damage at the spawns. I guess the simple solution is to just make all HW from spawn disallowed. It may seem strange to have this one exception to regulating where a person can shoot from, with that said...I played for 12+ years without firing from this spot, so it wouldn't bother me at all (although I might need reminded every now and then!) if this spot was outlawed.
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Post by Capt. Ronski on Jun 8, 2016 11:14:28 GMT -5
My 2 cents worth thoughts as I saw it last night.
I saw someone using the mg in exit 1 by the tank a few times, I also had the mg so I ended up setting up at the bottom of the stairs up from truck barrier 1, since we know that axis mg was fair game at that point even with being the exit. Upon him resetting up twice after being killed I used my MG on him ... and ONLY HIM! I just used the mg in single shot mode, not full-auto so to minimize any collateral damage possibilities. One time yes the axis did spawn and came through that way while I was finishing off the mg user and the other(s) did get hit with a shot or two at spawn point one, but the thing is the invulnerability is long so it was a moot point as we know the invulnerability will last if one moves right away after spawning to I'd say 3-4 steps out from the spawn exit one anyway, so no damage was done to axis. Next time I watched as axis came through with the mg sitting in the spawn exit, I of course just watched them run through 'no shots fired' and then after they cleared, finished the MG off. Again the axis running through were in the invulnerability mode anyways, held off to eliminate any axis complaints of the shots there. Someone mentioned afterward the mg was relocated to the spawn exit 2 nearest the bank.
Been on axis when that happens many times when trying to get through at spawn point 1 and the push back from being hit can slow the axis down enough or the congestion of axis players going through with the mg player, the invulnerability can end and lead to actually getting damage.
Now if the axis mg was setup in spawn point 2 nearest the bank, certainly the axis by the time they enter the spawn exit 2 will have lost the invulnerability.
My take is this, that if someone on axis decided to setup the mg in either spawn exit, yes agreed that mg is vulnerable to a legal attack, but also that particular exit "only" becomes legal to attack, flamer, including a nade. Granted that would open up the possibility to allies taking advantage of that spawn exit and start nading even if the axis mg player is in limbo, went spec, disconnected and changed class or team. Certainly opens up to having the admins doing much more duty when this happens.
When I have had an axis team member using the mg at the exit, I mention in team chat how it opens up the fact the whole team is now vulnerable to an attack at the spawn exit. It's not generally a problem for the axis team to come through as most times the mg sets up to the axis far right of the spawn, now if more than one axis tries coming through I have seen it become a bit congested though.
To me I'd say leave it as is since:
Doesn't happen very often, but then again... it does happen. The invulnerability keeps axis safe 'mostly' through spawn exit 1 already. If the rules are changed so the spawn becomes legal to attack, opens up the possibility to be a lot headaches for the admin(s) to police the users. If the mg does setup in either spawn, make it known in team chat at least as I do, that it opens up the axis to being shot in the spawn exit, maybe not on purpose, but for the allies going after the MG.
Okay so it was more like a nickel - 95 cents worth hehe.
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Sgt. AWOLaLot
Server Admin
"Ah yes! I was wondering what would break first. Your spirit... or your body."
Posts: 1,202
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Post by Sgt. AWOLaLot on Jun 8, 2016 15:43:23 GMT -5
While I agree with what you're saying Ronski, I'm pretty sure the new rule that Scout mentioned is not allowing the mg to set up in the spawn exit. And that in itself could cause some problems, because if we ban one heavy weapon in that spawn area, some people might argue and say, "Then why not ban them all?" It might be a stretch for me to say that, but I could see someone making that argument. We would also be taking away a play style that someone might want to use that map.
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Post by SCOUT on Jun 8, 2016 18:58:04 GMT -5
Still, no new rule.
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