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Post by Capt. Ronski on Mar 26, 2019 9:37:55 GMT -5
I’m not thinking ET here is dead, but we're just not seeing new blood coming in, just the same core members is all anymore and they're not showing up as much.
A suggestion. I'm seeing at least to me less and fewer players and significantly less play time especially during the week. Suggestion I threw out today while several were on was this. Have say a two, maybe more possibly three days of XP save during the week on a temporary basis. None turned that idea down. Another brought up by 7Brexit was to have an automatic shuffle after a few maps. At times as he said and I agree the teams occasionally get stacked and he brought up about how on Axis they heavily just rely on artillery constantly hitting the same spot by the one player. We know who refers to. Suggested to was increase xp save time to 12 hours.
TBH what has been happening, I saw also during the last several months on Judge server where I, Sparrow, Duke, Jackflack would show up, but not getting new blood coming in. This is what I'm seeing here. Accordingly the start of the silent server jump started it for awhile, but appears the 'honeymoon' or newness has faded. Granted we are running quite an old game and only so many players left to be sure that are still around! Just my suggestions if you want to try it? The XP save item would be something that would take up time for the server admins of course. Again temporary – a couple months for new players to notice us, just to see if it works!
Items I tried on Judge server, but still didn't work to get new players and what happened were many of our other players left us in the year we dropped out of team competition. Changed maps, maps rotations, some miscellaneous settings, it was a good 4 years ago I last did it so that's what I recall and forgotten some of the detail and certainly rcon/server commands in detail over the years hehe. Didn't try the XP save thing though, FYI we didn't do silent, but ETPub.
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Post by Porridge{QAW} on Mar 26, 2019 15:40:59 GMT -5
Isn't earning XP part of the fun?
Just wondering.
What is everyone's opinions of the custom maps? Back many moons ago, QAW experimented with custom maps, and that didn't go so well. Wondering what the thoughts are towards the few that are available now (via vote)?
For me, the Silent Mod thing is almost exactly the same as ETPub (except maybe slightly better in some areas).
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Post by tonofclay{QAW} on Mar 26, 2019 16:17:12 GMT -5
Yeah I think any complaints about Silent mod are unfounded, it works great as far as I can tell. After consistently playing with it, it just feels like normal to me now, and in my case accuracy I think has actually improved. I have seen some people who would like to see less of the customs and more of the originals, but people are always voting for the custom ones, so like with basically any changes ever made it's just a case of always having some people who are unhappy. My suggestion was to maybe have a couple 'originals only' nights in attempt to appease all sides. I don't think a longer XP save will ever be implemented ... a couple people have mentioned it over the years but overall I think the majority of players at this server enjoy earning the XP each day. Automatic shuffle is another lose/lose, since forced shuffles always lead to some players leaving which can sometimes kill the game entirely. And steiner is just a beast on Axis Field Ops and always will be, nobody is ever gonna change that. IMO that is the lamest thing to complain about, he's just playing the game as its intended, sorry to anyone who that bothers but it's A-OK in my book.
--Oh yeah and thanks for ze input, keep it coming!
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Post by KingMob on Mar 26, 2019 16:32:27 GMT -5
Nobody else is running all originals right now, at least not any servers with similar server location that are consistently busy. I find it hard to believe people will just quit playing the game because there are a few other maps, but who knows? I think it is fair to attribute any recent lull in attendance to the improving weather throughout the temperate zones. I know it's been a factor for me
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on Mar 26, 2019 21:16:12 GMT -5
agreed with those above. I appreciate your input Ronski (and anyone else, please speak up if you have an opinion), might just be a case of 16yo-game-itis. I don't get the sense that the customs are driving ppl away, but I haven't been around lately.
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Post by Future Shock! on Mar 27, 2019 9:27:59 GMT -5
Not that it's overly important, but Bork brought up those two points. Also like to underscore that I have no complaints about Steiner's arty (even when I'm allies). It's brutal, but it's part of the game - and he's a good team player. There's nothing wrong with some people mostly playing defence - some people prefer to only attack, and if we did not have good players who prefer defending, where would we be? Additionally even if some people are 'one trick ponies' - so what? The game is about having fun. I do agree that the teams get out of wack every now and again. But the solution for this is for ordinary players to notice, and be proactive. More to the point, for admins to notice and take action themselves - especially the better admins; to switch if they can, or to ask publicly. In my view anyway. Different servers have different xpsave habits - forever, 250 days, 2-3 months, a week, 48 hours. Personally I very much like the xpreset that QAW has. I don't think having xpsave necessarily means having more players. Someone once told me et IS dead - it died when you could no longer get a 20 vs 20 sniper game in the mid-afternoon. So it's kind of the living dead right now, and nothing will change that. Far as I know, there are very few USA servers which consistently have even 10 people for a few hours every night. QAW is one of those few.
Extra note:
The map list for voting seems to dwindle to a minumum of 4 maps, when that happens it does look very sparse.
On the one hand, I'd like there to be a consisent choice of 7/8 to vote for. But on the other hand, it might be that if more are available, those will be ones which were played very recently, and I don't want to play goldrush (for example) all night.
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Bill
Server Admin
Posts: 71
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Post by Bill on Mar 29, 2019 21:00:45 GMT -5
Please do not put bots on the server. It ruins the game for me. They are soulless, too accurate, no fun to play against. I beg of you.
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Post by mcbain{QAW} on Mar 30, 2019 13:25:08 GMT -5
The bots are really a test. The server doesn't show up in server lists at splatterladder if it is empty. That won't help grow the group of regulars.
Also, when I join usually there are only 1 or 2 others on and watching a 1v1 or lopsiding it to 2v2 can be pretty boring. At least they are objective based and will build barriers and plant dynos.
The difficulty can be adjusted down to make them much easier, but if we have at least 3v3, no bots should be on the server unless we are just messing around.
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Bill
Server Admin
Posts: 71
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Post by Bill on Mar 30, 2019 13:41:58 GMT -5
I would rather do without them, but if we can keep them down to 3v3 or even 2v2 then that's not so bad.
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Post by hoff{QAW} on Mar 30, 2019 16:33:32 GMT -5
back to pub
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Post by tonofclay{QAW} on Mar 30, 2019 22:18:48 GMT -5
The purpose of the bots you may have seen recently is just to keep the server showing up in the server list. It's currently broken, and empty servers don't show up at all. So if you add a bot there, the server will be in the list. It's as simple as that At this point everything is going pretty smoothly, don't imagine there will be any going back to ETPub, and people seem pretty happy being able to play a few extra maps, so complaints regarding those particular changes will probably fall on deaf ears ... I'd say if you don't like it, just move on, there are other servers to try or games to play
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on Mar 31, 2019 0:21:59 GMT -5
I think we should limit bots to 2 total. So 1 real player vs 1 bot. Literally just something for the early crowd to play with. I like them a lot for that purpose - they have a purpose.
The excessive bots were just us playing around a bit -- figuring out how good to make them etc
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on Mar 31, 2019 0:29:29 GMT -5
I personally worked with Pub for this server for a bit. It's not as simple as 'loading Pub mod and playing Originals' -- trust me, I actually worked with it. I couldn't find a way to easily replicate Originals. Perhaps you have some tips? Done with this garbage though. Hope you can appreciate our effort to keep QAW alive and find a way to enjoy it while it lasts. Salud amigo. //
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Post by Porridge{QAW} on Mar 31, 2019 9:32:53 GMT -5
Honestly, and I've said this before, I find no difference between ETPub and Silent. Except maybe an extra gun for some classes.
Outside of that it feels just the same to me. And some things feel improved (bug fixes, etc.).
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on Apr 1, 2019 21:24:02 GMT -5
Honestly, and I've said this before, I find no difference between ETPub and Silent. Except maybe an extra gun for some classes. Outside of that it feels just the same to me. And some things feel improved (bug fixes, etc.). I've made my peace with Silent, but I was absolutely a better shot with Pub. That said, I think whatever the difference is between them, it seems to affect everyone in the same proportion kinda, so no one is really any worse or better overall from what I've generally seen. Just my take, but hitboxes are indeed different, or maybe a lag setting.. Whatever it is, I feel like I need to be way more precise now. Nothing wrong with having to work to aim a bit better though and I've been appreciating the challenge. This server is a net positive though from my POV, and we're all better off for it. Keep the suggestions coming. Whether we agree or not, we respect them for sure. We'll try to improve the server as best we can. \/
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Post by Porridge{QAW} on Apr 3, 2019 12:27:42 GMT -5
Honestly, and I've said this before, I find no difference between ETPub and Silent. Except maybe an extra gun for some classes. Outside of that it feels just the same to me. And some things feel improved (bug fixes, etc.). I've made my peace with Silent, but I was absolutely a better shot with Pub. That said, I think whatever the difference is between them, it seems to affect everyone in the same proportion kinda, so no one is really any worse or better overall from what I've generally seen. Just my take, but hitboxes are indeed different, or maybe a lag setting.. Whatever it is, I feel like I need to be way more precise now. Nothing wrong with having to work to aim a bit better though and I've been appreciating the challenge. This server is a net positive though from my POV, and we're all better off for it. Keep the suggestions coming. Whether we agree or not, we respect them for sure. We'll try to improve the server as best we can. \/ See now, I'm no different of a shot with Silent or Pub. My strategy has always been the same. Close my eyes and spray some bullets around, and hope that the guy who's shooting at me, somehow dies before I do. That skill continues to this day - which is why the 'Heal Me' mapping has worked wonders.
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amig0
Server Admin
Posts: 768
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Post by amig0 on Apr 16, 2019 14:54:50 GMT -5
Please do not put bots on the server. It ruins the game for me. They are soulless, too accurate, no fun to play against. I beg of you. hahaha..but Jesus, u were having a hard time last time I see you agaisnt bots....
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Post by crc on Apr 20, 2019 19:17:20 GMT -5
The bots are killing the server. Just look at all the empty servers in the server list. All with bots and custom maps.
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Post by tonofclay{QAW} on Apr 21, 2019 7:41:02 GMT -5
There are only 2 very popular custom maps on the server during the week that mostly everyone seems to enjoy, and as I said in a post above, the bots aren't even there when there are people playing. They are removed when enough players join, and having bots parked there also keeps the server in the master server list in the in-game server browser, because it currently is broken and does not show empty servers.
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on Apr 23, 2019 13:51:42 GMT -5
The bots are killing the server. Just look at all the empty servers in the server list. All with bots and custom maps. The bots aren't killing the server. There are 2 scenarios that include bots. The first is the regular 1 vs 1 that you often see. As Tonnage said, they disappear once two humans are in-game. The other scenario is when I'm on early and manipulate the bots to my liking. Often, DABA and I will fight many bots just to play around. I usually end that when more ppl join, but it's fun for us when server is empty. People have moved on, or are busy/not around right now. That trend started well before the bots showed up. I'd suggest that those of us who want to see a busier server need to just join more often.
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Post by Future Shock! on Apr 26, 2019 9:25:33 GMT -5
when I'm on early and manipulate the bots to my liking. Often, DABA and I will fight many bots just to play around. I usually end that when more ppl join, but it's fun for us when server is empty. Please don't take offence by this, but is this server your personal playground to fight bots, or is it a place for everyone's enjoyment, both QAW and ordinary players. I agree with Bill and crc. ... And since the theory of 1v1 bots has not fit the reality of e.g. 2-4 people vs 4-6 bots, my desire to play here has dramatically decreased. After checking trackbase to see a half dozen bots despoiling the server, I am actively put off, and simply do something else instead. I had been considering opening a new thread dedicated to this issue, but for various reasons have not yet done so. This may not be a democracy, but by and large it is ordinary players who make a server, and if they are not listened to, then they may leave. Therefore I'd say it's fairly important that a majority of players are on board with major changes. Far as I know, it was just decided to add bots without concern over what the ordinary players wanted. By the way, the server still does not show up for 2.60b ingame serverlist when empty/just 2 bots. Can make it show in favourites by manually connecting to ip and favouriting, but even then it displays 0 players when it ought to show the 2 for bots. Perhaps not configured properly. But anyway, who wants to join a server with only 2 bots in it? All the places I've explored over last 5 years are from seeing 10+ players on trackbase. somewhere around, I've heard the notion that bots kill a server. Don't think entirely true, but sometimes you get a newcomer connecting and wondering if the players are people. This says something important.
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Post by mcbain{QAW} on Apr 26, 2019 20:40:45 GMT -5
The bots are obvious bots.
Are you saying you don't join the server because there are 2 bots online, but you would join if there 0 players online?
I will disable the bots for 1 week. Let the games begin!
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Post by Future Shock! on Apr 27, 2019 19:18:06 GMT -5
Mainly was saying I don't join when a team of e.g. 4-5 bots vs 3-4 humans. ... last point was: any new players looking at the list - why would they want to join a server with only 2 bots on? So in that sense does it matter if QAW appears on ingame list or not. - The regulars will come regardless. - And any new people are likely to be attracted by people, as I was. But yes, there's something cosy about the atmosphere with only a few players. I was always happy to be one of the first & wait around for a bit. Suppose I have quite an aversion to bots, mostly I find even their presence actively unenjoyable. Since there weren't any before I'm finding it difficult to adjust to the change, as it was one of the standout features of QAW nary a bot in sight.
And yeah, it could just be coincidence, but last ~month there have been hardly any players on server. All the same, canvassing old regulars and contributors re view on bots may be a good idea. If more like them than don't, keep them. p.s. 2.60b serverlist has been broken for years & doesn't distinguish between humans/bots. Just shows total number. Or for clans like FA which use dirty tricks, shows a falsely high number. Lot of those about actually. I checked ingame list yesterday, couldn't see QAW on it. However when manually connected/favourited, then d/c, it did display in favourites (but not main list), but showed 0 players. Should have shown 2, and appeared in main list. I can't connect right now anyway, some issue with my internet.
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Bill
Server Admin
Posts: 71
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Post by Bill on Apr 28, 2019 12:38:08 GMT -5
I actually did not mind when the bots were just 1v1 or 2v2. Not sure if they did their intended purpose, but they weren't as horrible as I thought. I found myself playing against them a few times when no one else was on.
As far as new player retention, one thing I have seen (and I'm sure others have seen it) is a new player who joins, plays a while, gets pwned over and over by some professional fragger, then ragequits, probably never to be seen again. Of course the game should be played however you want to play it. But why can't people understand that you gotta take it easy on a new player who is obviously struggling, to make it fun for them, so that they come back and keep this server alive?
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Post by tonofclay{QAW} on Apr 28, 2019 13:49:10 GMT -5
This game is very old, there's no way around it ... there is not going to be a huge amount of new players flowing in to any server, and to split it up between all the remaining servers they could possibly join means the chances of getting a new player who sticks around is very slim. Before any changes to this server were made, there was already a loss in regular players, and paired with no new players joining, this obviously lead to less activity on an already dwindling server. Like I previously said, any changes to this server were made as an attempt to attract new, regular players. None of these changes scared people away from joining ... the minuscule amount of players who would have even seen the server in the first place probably would have never joined anyways ... they certainly didn't when it was just ETPUB with Original Maps.
It's easy to blame any recent changes on things, but I am hoping to clarify that these changes were made simply because the decline has been in full effect for several years. I've been here awhile, and every year there's less people ...
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Post by mcbain{QAW} on Apr 28, 2019 15:33:56 GMT -5
Mainly was saying I don't join when a team of e.g. 4-5 bots vs 3-4 humans. ... This only ever happened a handful of times when only 2 people were online and they didn't want to play 1v1 so we were goofin around and brought about 4 bots to go 4v2 and then two more real players joined, so we continued versus bots. We were all having fun. Eventually the bots were kicked and we played 3v3 for a bit and then all people left. I don't see the harm in that. I played at OF last night and they had 12v12 with real people. They basically have no rules that are enforced (besides Rambo meds sometimes) and all custom maps with voting. They don't really talk to each other, they don't have good teamwork, they just frag. Works for them, but people here were more social, wanted to work together, etc. That's why I liked QAW, but reality is that once it gets warmer out, some people will spend less time online. We appreciate all efforts to keep the place alive, just be careful to blame any one single thing for the decline...as Ton said, it had been going on for some time, and with the old admin basically abandoning ship, we lost about 4-6 regs over night. Anyway...bots are off. I hope to see more on the server this week.
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Post by Future Shock! on Apr 28, 2019 17:42:58 GMT -5
I must apologise for the combative start of initial post, re-reading it's kind of off. So- sorry SpaceAge, I just hate bots. And really, it wasn't a handful of times, it has been a fair amount for the last few weeks, I check trackbase nightly. But I mean I'm not going to argue with if you were all having fun at those times. If more ppl than not are fine with or want bots, then by all means keep them.
Still, got to reinforce when a newcomer joins and asks are the players people, which has happened enough in my experience for it to be a thing. I don't understand the reasoning having 1v1 in order to appear on ingame serverlist. If there's a miniscule amount who would have seen anyway, why on earth does it matter if appears on list or not when it's empty? I don't see the need because: Those who know this game & use 2.60b very likely know the list is broken, so use trackbase/SL. Legacy may well show empty servers, tho don't quote me. and some players like myself and barrabass (ok not best example) DO still explore servers, and I use trackbase - if there's an interesting looking place with no bots and +10 ppl, I dive right in. And if enjoy it, come back. So if anyone new comes, my guess is they'll do so from seeing decent player numbers already on server. QAW is alive at the cusp of early usa eves, late euro (till 2am gmt bst), so has a chance of catching some old hands who know the score from both sides of the pond. Of course not a lot, but as mentioned, some changes were made for that reason. I know the late eve. usa scene is really quiet, it's just OF plus a few FA servers, and occasionally like house of rox and a few others. Ets always has half a dozen in spec, and 18 bots, but these tactics don't seem to work either. I agree in principle, there are not going to be a lot flowing in whatever happens. But There are exceptions to this rule. Such as TeamMuppet Legacy server which has 30+ in for like 5 hours every night. That server didn't even exist before xmas. Think due to SplashDamage doing some advertising of ET, and it got players by having players, which is a conundrum for sure, but issue is I don't think I'm alone in my intolerance for bots. Question is, how much of a minority view is my sort of view re bots.
I think people are attracted by people.
sorry for length of posts (oo'er missus).
my verbosity knows no bounds.
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Post by mcbain{QAW} on May 3, 2019 18:16:54 GMT -5
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Post by hoff{QAW} on May 4, 2019 4:52:06 GMT -5
I'm just about to read all of this... Greetings!
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Bill
Server Admin
Posts: 71
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Post by Bill on May 4, 2019 12:50:47 GMT -5
Uhmmm... can we go back to having 2v2 bots on?
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