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Post by MetalStorm on Aug 7, 2015 22:19:01 GMT -5
OK.... I got banned without a warning.....999,999 seconds
I was playing flame thrower aggressively at the 2nd tank barrier as an allied soldier. Fighting was pretty intense, the server was full and the teams were pretty evenly matched.
While the barrier was up, I would attack the field op at the bottom of the steps and then move towards the trees chasing others as well as I could (one star on heavy).
The tank was at the barrier.... The barrier was blown several times and rebuilt fairly quickly. When the barrier was down I went after everyone as allowed in the rules.
I don't know who banned me. I thought I was within the rules staying away from the spawn exit while the barrier was up. On the other side I went after everyone when the barrier was down. Nobody complained about me being near the spawn exit at anytime.
If I offended someone... I'm sorry. If someone thought I was too close they should have spoke up and said something. I didn't hear any complaints.
If you guys lift the ban, that would be nice. If not see you at the end of September after the Reno and Pacific Northwest trip....
Have a great day
Mark H MetalStorm
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Post by SCOUT on Aug 7, 2015 23:23:05 GMT -5
Dear Mark,
I banned you. You are a (an) server admin here, but yet you flamed me right in my face and stuff. I mean you really flamed me and some other peeps and junk. Because of your status as an admin (and junk) jooo were treated more harshly (harsher?) than most. That should esplain all the stuff and stuff. During yo brief timeout perhaps you can ponder math and other hard stuff.
<3 SCCOUT (aka 46969hotgurl@gmail.com)
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on Aug 8, 2015 1:04:38 GMT -5
More harshly :-D
Metal. I was not there so I might not be doing either side of this any favors.
Simply based on what you said above...... The barrier being blown alone does not release the hounds of hell on the axis spawn. The flaming funk of 40,000 years can only be strewn about spawn exit area(not interior) if THE 2ND BARRIER CAN NO LONGER BE BUILT. BE BUILT. BE BUILT. The level 11 reverb is so its clear.
It is not shameful for an admin to re-read the rules. I learned today from some guy with a Spock goatee named Lurch-in-disguise that the "back door" allies spawn of Battery actually has spawn rules to some degree (heavy weaps/splash= no, light weaps is ok), where I thought it was a free for all. I consider myself quite knowledgeable about the rules!! Its right there in the Exceptions for all to see and I didn't absorb it. Wasn't my bad, but I still learned something new today.
Anyway, you got a lickin' today. 1) Take another look at all the rules. We should all re-familiarize once in awhile anyway. You'll learn something new every time between the listed rules, and the rule-related forum topics 2) Best to be careful with splash weaps around spawns anyway.
Be SURE, then kill with confidence!!
See you in the future Mark.
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Post by SCOUT on Aug 8, 2015 11:32:34 GMT -5
I just double checked and the ban has expired.
Carry on...
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Post by MetalStorm on Aug 8, 2015 23:51:43 GMT -5
Sorry for all of it, I will respect spawn boundaries EVEN more....
Thanks to whomever MERCIFULLY lifted the ban. I do appreciate it....
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Scout....
Sorry for flaming you in the face. You could be Harry Whittington and I was Dick Cheney, and you got shot in the face in a quail hunting accident...
I looked and the rules, YES I learned details...
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SPACEAGE PIMP.... Thanks for pointing out the rules. Rules reread again (which I've been doing for MANY years here and still find new things constantly.....). Rules were much different back at XERO Clan... I've actually began to like the lack of spawn killing here... (I'm older (age 56) and slower than most of you all)
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Just to give you all something to think about...........
Please note the RULE DOESN'T TECHNICALLY SAY "barrier can't be rebuilt" (sorry Pimp)..... It Says....
After the second tank barrier is destroyed AND as the tank is moving under the bridge to its parking spot outside the axis spawn, SK rules do not apply at the Axis spawn until the bank doors are blown.
So the rule says "TANK MOVING UNDER BRIDGE", that IMPLIES Barrier cannot be rebuilt (read the rest here PIMP)..... IN LAW there is the LETTER OF LAW and the SPIRIT OF THE LAW... The Spirit here says once barrier can't be rebuilt but before the door is blown, spawn kill areas are open for attack..... If we are LITERALLY READING THE RULES (letter of the law) then the tank must be MOVING. Operative word here is MOVING. If the tank is broken and in need of repair you can't attack the outside spawn areas You can only do that if the tank is MOVING... Furthermore the TANK MUST BE UNDER THE BRIDGE (once it clears the bridge and the bank door is not blown) spawn killing restrictions come back into play.... The INTENT of the RULE and WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS are 2 different things.....
READ a BIT MORE....
The first part about stealing the tank....
After the tank has been stolen, but before it leaves the courtyard, the outside area is open to attacks intended to slow or stop the tank. The actual spawn room is off limits.
Please note the "the outside area is open to attacks intended to slow or stop the tank" That to me means (letter of the law) that you can attack the tank, but you can not attack any of the Allied Troops defending the tank.... (kind of like "running through the spawn and you can't defend yourself if someone starts shooting at you" situations).... I have understood the spirit of this rule to mean YOU CAN ATTACK THE TANK AND DEFENDING ALLIED SOLDIERS BEFORE THE TANK LEAVES THE COURTYARD.........
Any comments on the above?
Have a nice day all.
Mark H MetalStorm
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Post by oZ{QAW} on Aug 9, 2015 0:36:46 GMT -5
Dear Mark. Perhaps you are reading the rules and interpreting them as a Lawyer (I understand you are one). Honestly I don’t want to get into a legal argument with you, which I could (I’m a lawyer too), since it would be pointless. You seem to forget or overlook the fact that we are talking about the server rules for a GAME and not a law (technically speaking). This is a place where we all come to have fun and the rules only try to keep it like that for everyone. Trying to make this into a legal argument only makes me think that you are trying to find the loophole that most laws have to turn it into your own favor. I understand that is what you might be trained to do, but honestly that is not the attitude an admin should have. Cheers! oZ
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Post by MetalStorm on Aug 9, 2015 8:30:49 GMT -5
Just pointing out that what the rules say and what the players/admins do are two different things.
Probably for the tank going under the bridge it should say something like.....
The outside spawn areas are fair game... "between the time the construction boxes for the 2nd tank barrier disappear and the bank doors are blown"....
For when the tank is stolen.... "Fighting can continue in the courtyard until the tanks is out of the courtyard. Axis players may not attack the allied spawn."
Much more clear...
Mark H MetalStorm
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Post by SpaceAge_Pimp{QAW} on Aug 9, 2015 12:24:50 GMT -5
As far as re-reading the rules again and again. That's my point! I've reread them too and still learned something since. I think the Tank 2 thing is clear enough though. In the forums and rules themselves I think, there is talk of 'an objective in play that changes the spawn rules for an area" such as allies spawn in radar being attackable if objective is going through. If Tank 2 can still be built, there is no reason YET to defend the tank's movement/progress at the spawn area. The 'moving fwd under the bridge' part kinda corroborates that idea as well. Anyway, I'd strive to follow the letter, not the spirit. Spirit can be challenged and debated endlessly, where-as I think the intent of the rules is to enforce them based on literal meaning. For matters of ambiguity in the literal definitions causing questionable enforcement, there's always the forums. A touch of common sense, and siding with caution around spawns is a darn good policy for any player though. See you soon!
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Post by Porridge{QAW} on Aug 9, 2015 12:29:58 GMT -5
I wanted to comment on two (2, dos) things. One (Juan), is that methinks Scout is prolly older than MetalStormTrooper. Second, regarding the rules. When we came up with that exception or whatever (on gold rush) back in circa 2012, the year of our lord, we wanted to imply that fighting could occur next to the tank, after the allies were able to get at least part of the tank under the bridge, after blowing up the 2nd barrier. Since most of the axis would be defending the tank just outside their spawn anyway, we figured we'd allow the allies the option to fight the axis there while repairing teh tank. The idea behind the rules were simply to suggest the use of not-so-common sense. For example, it doesn't make sense to attack the axis in the 2nd spawn exit (closer to the bank) when the tank is stalled near the first spawn exit (near the second barrier). Spawn killing, per se, (I.e. Going into the axis spawn and demolishing faces) is still not permitted in either scenario. We're just a little more understanding of splash damage around the tank, that's all. If we were to cover every little scenario in our "rule book", it'd literally be around 856 pages with exceptions, bylaws, footnotes, and.... you guessed it, head notes. And then poor lurch would have to come out of disguise to proof read all that material. We'd then also have to conduct multiple choice exams - and have some level of certifications. All this, while wearing a cape and using a fountain pen with a feather tip
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Post by MetalStorm on Aug 9, 2015 17:34:41 GMT -5
Porridge.... I don't know how old Scout is... I'm 56. I doubt he's older than me... This..... "All this, while wearing a cape and using a fountain pen with a feather tip " COOL IDEA We should all wear capes when playing.... Mark H MetalStorm
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Post by Cowboy{QAW} on Aug 9, 2015 22:27:36 GMT -5
Last time I saw Scout he was runnin round with Lew Wetzel and Jonathan Zane, that should let you in on a little known secret.
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