Post by Lethal on Jan 15, 2016 2:24:22 GMT -5
Hello! I like to dispute an unfair kick I got for spawnkilling. I killed a fops on oasis that ran out of spawn and threw an airstrike.
First of all,
A. Do not go into the areas indicated in red. Likewise, do not shoot, throw artillery, mortar, place mines, etc. directly in these areas. Keep in mind that all explosive weapons (artillery/airstrikes, nades, dyno, etc) have a radius of splash damage. Using these weapons close to the boundry may produce splash damage inside an SK zone.
I wasn't in red zone. I was on top part of the axis spawn courtyard. The fops left the red zone of spawn killing. He was under the portico of the axis spawn exit. Which is clearly not in red in the sk boundaries pictures.
B. Spawnkilling is the killing of an opposing player in their primary spawn before the opposing player has taken an offensive action such as shooting OUT of the spawn, throwing ammo or health to other players, planting mines, using a mortar or calling airstrikes.
He threw an airstrike. And, THE MOST IMPORTANT,all the ppl that I kill in courtyard taht are shooting back at me are shooting OUT of the spawn, cos im on top where the area is not considered as axis spawn in red, compare to down where they are.
E. ONLY light weapons such as knives, pistols or machine guns are to be used when killing spawning players taking offensive actions. All other means and weapons are prohibited, including panzerfaust, flamer, grenades, dynamite, mines, riflenades, air strikes or mortars, or any weapon that has the potential for splash damage to innocent spawning players.
I killed him with an smg.
F. Spawncamping is the practice of pinning the opposing team inside the boundaries of their spawn with light weapons, the use of flamethrowers to create an impenetrable wall, mining the exits, etc without regard for advancing any objective such as capturing a spawn, destroying a command post or stealing an objective. Spawncamping is not defined by distance, but by the intent not to allow any players out of their spawn.
I didn't pin down anyone in their spawn. He could freely leave it at will. Plus, I never had to the intend to not allow any players to leave their spawn. I was indeed accused of spawncamping after an admin admitted it wasn't a spawnkill. But according to your OWN definition of spawncamping, I wasn't. I had just left where I was to come back and saw what the fops had done. I was accused of roaming continuously there and that it wasn't helping objective. I had to stay there cos an axis player was constantly coming at me, and everytime I let him come up stairs which he did like 4-5 times in a row. And right before, I just had left that position for a while to come back later.
G. Opposing players generally have no reason to go into the other team’s spawn. There is no expectation of safety if an opposing player chooses to run through a spawn as a shortcut. The spawning team may fire on them at will and the opposing player may NOT fire back.
Liked stated earlier, I wasn't in axis spawn but on top. Second, that position is very helpful to help for objective. You can see the axis player shooting, calling arty, etc at allies from the portico (and some do try to back to spawn just to hide and do it again, which is totally legit but hard for allies to take care of). Also, when theres a dyno planted a gun, its very useful to jump from there to catch the axis from behind (after they left spawn of course) while they rushing for the guns (hence they usually in a hurry and dont look back). I think its a good strategic position and very useful for objective, just like running through axis second goldrush spawn to attack them from behind (which is really hard cos the 20 sec spawn, spawn shields, u can't shoot back, etc) but surely a key move to a successful allies win on goldrush.
Also, I wanna point out something about the rule B. Spawnkilling is the killing of an opposing player in their primary spawn before the opposing player has taken an offensive action such as shooting OUT of the spawn. Some admins apply it very restrictly, some dont. I was even told it was to admin discretion.... In my opinion, it is only natural to consider someone shooting from their spawn is in game, cos well hes shooting(therefore playing, and taking actions to ensure his team win) and not just being afk or standing there. When in a red area, I always let the other shoot first, ONLY THEN, I shoot back. He made the decision to part of the game, he could have stand there and do nothing and I wouldn't have kill him, he could have leave by other exit, he could have do whatever he wanted, but he chose to shoot me and engage in fight. I don't expect this rule to change, but I just dont see how it suppose to help implement the spirit of no spawnkilling. It just keeps ppl from doing the obj. And like I said, some admins were totally fine with me shooting in red area. This particular case happens almost soly on goldrush when theres an axis deliberately waiting or just afk in their second spawn that I wanna go through (between spawntimes) TO REACH THE OBJ. Of course I try to run through, AND ONLY SHOOT IF THEY SHOOT FIRST. I let them shoot first, which already gives them a big advantage. If they just let me run through and not shoot, then I don't shoot them. Some admins did warn me for that, but lot of other didnt, which I think do support my claim.
So basically, I dont think I broke any rules, nor the spirits of these rules. I let axis leave their spawn to reach obj or whatever else. Also, I make a point of honor to never shoot someone that is afk, or just standing in spawn and doing nothing. I do recognize the vital need of the non-sk rules on the sever, but on the other hand I do deplore that excessive whiny attitude towards sk of players, like people always having to yell or complaint about sk, like it was the end of the world when it occurs. Even when they had time to play, do whatever, then just complaint cos they were still hanging around in their spawn (add often using it as a defensive position, which has nothing to do with sk). Also, I deplore the zeal of some admins to enfore sk measures at any cost without proper justifications.
I do hope my point of view will be considered for his content, and not dismiss cos of the messager, that's call a genetic fallacy, and that it might bring up enlightening arguments on the matter on if what I did was wrong or not (maybe even a discussion on some rules changes (or anything else, like new maps for example), and saying we dont change rules cos they always been that way is not a proper argument, its just lazyness, arrogance and actually shows no care for your dedicated community, things can be improve for the benefit of all, if u take time to listen and consider what others have to say). Finally I don't wanna hear I did spawnkilling (or spawncamping) cos an admin says so, like I was actually told on the server. I want to be judged on fact and the own rules u guys set up, not on someone's personal opinion.
First of all,
A. Do not go into the areas indicated in red. Likewise, do not shoot, throw artillery, mortar, place mines, etc. directly in these areas. Keep in mind that all explosive weapons (artillery/airstrikes, nades, dyno, etc) have a radius of splash damage. Using these weapons close to the boundry may produce splash damage inside an SK zone.
I wasn't in red zone. I was on top part of the axis spawn courtyard. The fops left the red zone of spawn killing. He was under the portico of the axis spawn exit. Which is clearly not in red in the sk boundaries pictures.
B. Spawnkilling is the killing of an opposing player in their primary spawn before the opposing player has taken an offensive action such as shooting OUT of the spawn, throwing ammo or health to other players, planting mines, using a mortar or calling airstrikes.
He threw an airstrike. And, THE MOST IMPORTANT,all the ppl that I kill in courtyard taht are shooting back at me are shooting OUT of the spawn, cos im on top where the area is not considered as axis spawn in red, compare to down where they are.
E. ONLY light weapons such as knives, pistols or machine guns are to be used when killing spawning players taking offensive actions. All other means and weapons are prohibited, including panzerfaust, flamer, grenades, dynamite, mines, riflenades, air strikes or mortars, or any weapon that has the potential for splash damage to innocent spawning players.
I killed him with an smg.
F. Spawncamping is the practice of pinning the opposing team inside the boundaries of their spawn with light weapons, the use of flamethrowers to create an impenetrable wall, mining the exits, etc without regard for advancing any objective such as capturing a spawn, destroying a command post or stealing an objective. Spawncamping is not defined by distance, but by the intent not to allow any players out of their spawn.
I didn't pin down anyone in their spawn. He could freely leave it at will. Plus, I never had to the intend to not allow any players to leave their spawn. I was indeed accused of spawncamping after an admin admitted it wasn't a spawnkill. But according to your OWN definition of spawncamping, I wasn't. I had just left where I was to come back and saw what the fops had done. I was accused of roaming continuously there and that it wasn't helping objective. I had to stay there cos an axis player was constantly coming at me, and everytime I let him come up stairs which he did like 4-5 times in a row. And right before, I just had left that position for a while to come back later.
G. Opposing players generally have no reason to go into the other team’s spawn. There is no expectation of safety if an opposing player chooses to run through a spawn as a shortcut. The spawning team may fire on them at will and the opposing player may NOT fire back.
Liked stated earlier, I wasn't in axis spawn but on top. Second, that position is very helpful to help for objective. You can see the axis player shooting, calling arty, etc at allies from the portico (and some do try to back to spawn just to hide and do it again, which is totally legit but hard for allies to take care of). Also, when theres a dyno planted a gun, its very useful to jump from there to catch the axis from behind (after they left spawn of course) while they rushing for the guns (hence they usually in a hurry and dont look back). I think its a good strategic position and very useful for objective, just like running through axis second goldrush spawn to attack them from behind (which is really hard cos the 20 sec spawn, spawn shields, u can't shoot back, etc) but surely a key move to a successful allies win on goldrush.
Also, I wanna point out something about the rule B. Spawnkilling is the killing of an opposing player in their primary spawn before the opposing player has taken an offensive action such as shooting OUT of the spawn. Some admins apply it very restrictly, some dont. I was even told it was to admin discretion.... In my opinion, it is only natural to consider someone shooting from their spawn is in game, cos well hes shooting(therefore playing, and taking actions to ensure his team win) and not just being afk or standing there. When in a red area, I always let the other shoot first, ONLY THEN, I shoot back. He made the decision to part of the game, he could have stand there and do nothing and I wouldn't have kill him, he could have leave by other exit, he could have do whatever he wanted, but he chose to shoot me and engage in fight. I don't expect this rule to change, but I just dont see how it suppose to help implement the spirit of no spawnkilling. It just keeps ppl from doing the obj. And like I said, some admins were totally fine with me shooting in red area. This particular case happens almost soly on goldrush when theres an axis deliberately waiting or just afk in their second spawn that I wanna go through (between spawntimes) TO REACH THE OBJ. Of course I try to run through, AND ONLY SHOOT IF THEY SHOOT FIRST. I let them shoot first, which already gives them a big advantage. If they just let me run through and not shoot, then I don't shoot them. Some admins did warn me for that, but lot of other didnt, which I think do support my claim.
So basically, I dont think I broke any rules, nor the spirits of these rules. I let axis leave their spawn to reach obj or whatever else. Also, I make a point of honor to never shoot someone that is afk, or just standing in spawn and doing nothing. I do recognize the vital need of the non-sk rules on the sever, but on the other hand I do deplore that excessive whiny attitude towards sk of players, like people always having to yell or complaint about sk, like it was the end of the world when it occurs. Even when they had time to play, do whatever, then just complaint cos they were still hanging around in their spawn (add often using it as a defensive position, which has nothing to do with sk). Also, I deplore the zeal of some admins to enfore sk measures at any cost without proper justifications.
I do hope my point of view will be considered for his content, and not dismiss cos of the messager, that's call a genetic fallacy, and that it might bring up enlightening arguments on the matter on if what I did was wrong or not (maybe even a discussion on some rules changes (or anything else, like new maps for example), and saying we dont change rules cos they always been that way is not a proper argument, its just lazyness, arrogance and actually shows no care for your dedicated community, things can be improve for the benefit of all, if u take time to listen and consider what others have to say). Finally I don't wanna hear I did spawnkilling (or spawncamping) cos an admin says so, like I was actually told on the server. I want to be judged on fact and the own rules u guys set up, not on someone's personal opinion.